tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post1944541543051074180..comments2024-02-28T04:16:37.844-05:00Comments on History Undressed: 'I have spent this night IN Spain'Eliza Knighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-24406142094630374102008-03-26T11:00:00.000-04:002008-03-26T11:00:00.000-04:00Joy! I never thought about that! I'm sure it cou...Joy! I never thought about that! I'm sure it could certainly be a possibility!Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-50743222704280642482008-03-25T16:46:00.000-04:002008-03-25T16:46:00.000-04:00Hmmmm - really interesting post, Eliza. At first I...Hmmmm - really interesting post, Eliza. <BR/><BR/>At first I was leaning toward yes they did, but after reading Terry's post I'm thinking maybe Arthur was gay, and an embarrassment to the family. That would certainly explain all the posturing after the wedding night, and the subsequent banishment to a drafty Welsh castle!Joy Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171439765000635183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-83034892549300323532008-03-25T16:39:00.000-04:002008-03-25T16:39:00.000-04:00Wow Terry! You pointed out some very interesting ...Wow Terry! You pointed out some very interesting facts! I didn't realize that if she went into a convent Mary would still be considered legitimate... I thought that by doing so she would be essentially admitting that she was had engaged in sexual intercourse with Arthur and in such case her marriage to Henry would be annulled and Mary would no longer be in line for the throne? Is it possible that her going to the church he wouldn't have annulled the marriage? And if he didn't annul it wouldn't he be worried she'd change her mind at a later date and come out of the convent?<BR/><BR/>These are such good questions, I'm going to have to look into them further.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your thoughts!Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-60733688195818235932008-03-25T10:40:00.000-04:002008-03-25T10:40:00.000-04:00There is only Arthur's word that they consummated ...There is only Arthur's word that they consummated the marriage. I can't believe Arthur in those circumstances would admit that the marriage was unconsummated. <BR/><BR/>Catherine, on the other hand, said the marriage was not consummated. They are the only two who know. <BR/><BR/>Where you might make a case that Catherine said the marriage was unconsummated so she could marry Henry which was a political move to keep Spain and England allied. And, some say, so the Henry VII who was notorious tight with money, wouldn’t have to give Catherine’s dowery back if she returned to Spain. However, later events make it much more likely she was telling the truth. <BR/><BR/>Catherine was a very pious woman and I don't think she would have lied to the Papal legate about her marriage to Arthur when Henry was trying to divorce her. The only legal grounds for divorce for Henry would be a consummated marriage to Arthur. <BR/><BR/>At this point, Catherine could have averted the English Reformation if she had gone into a convent and taken Holy Orders - this would make her 'dead to the world', keep Mary, her daughter legitimate and allow Henry to marry another in hopes of a male heir. <BR/><BR/>This Catherine refused to do – not because she was trying to subvert Henry’s plea for divorce, but because she stated she did not have a vocation. This is a very religious woman, who wouldn’t accept a polite fiction of going into a convent (where her life would have been pretty much the same for her as if she wasn’t in a convent). <BR/><BR/>Therefore I believe the marriage between Catherine and Arthur was unconsummated. <BR/><BR/>History Teacher with a MA in Tudor and Stuart England.Terry Blainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11616839833674760570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-92194436184110322092008-03-25T07:57:00.000-04:002008-03-25T07:57:00.000-04:00lol, thanks Brit!I totally agree with you!lol, thanks Brit!<BR/><BR/>I totally agree with you!Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-36971771063428619312008-03-25T06:10:00.000-04:002008-03-25T06:10:00.000-04:00Thanks for making my head hurt...IMHO, if the woma...Thanks for making my head hurt...IMHO, if the woman was indeed as smart as is believed, she would do her utmost to protect her daughter. She would say whatever was needed.Brit Blaisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02715123723770842970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-35972389128640209382008-03-24T15:44:00.000-04:002008-03-24T15:44:00.000-04:00Thank you for all the comments ladies! I agree wh...Thank you for all the comments ladies! I agree whole-heartedly!<BR/><BR/>And I can't wait for the Tudors to come back too, next weekend!!!Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-40588859684227963782008-03-24T11:02:00.000-04:002008-03-24T11:02:00.000-04:00Another interesting post, Eliza. Just shows that s...Another interesting post, Eliza. Just shows that soap operas aren't a modern invention! Such intrigue. Many people who claimed to be religious back then did so to protect their interests, and set religion aside or manipulated it (as Henry VIII did) when it suited them. Catherine would have been well versed in the machinations of politics. My guess is she had her hanky panky and subsequently played the game well, though she ultimately lost to Anne Boleyn.Pat McDermotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17969402820726235963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-58017722425354049232008-03-24T10:13:00.000-04:002008-03-24T10:13:00.000-04:00Let's see a fifteen year old and a sixteen year ol...Let's see a fifteen year old and a sixteen year old together for six months and expected to have relations--hmmmm--Of course they did!-AnneAnne Carrolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17459916746850595922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-58713935031713897662008-03-24T10:12:00.000-04:002008-03-24T10:12:00.000-04:00Oh Eliza, now you've got me wanting the TUDORS to ...Oh Eliza, now you've got me wanting the TUDORS to come back on even more!!! <BR/><BR/>Great post!!! I have to tell you, this is a tricky one, but I believe that they DID, I think as you said in your post, she would never had jeapordized her daughters future or her own place as queen. <BR/><BR/>But only she knows!!! lol, and she wasn't telling!!!Andrea Sniderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15146104784431873560noreply@blogger.com