tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post9110408551871559198..comments2024-02-28T04:16:37.844-05:00Comments on History Undressed: Guest Author, Jeanne Adams on A-Dressing the Dead Through CenturiesEliza Knighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-75405026796145571522011-04-22T18:30:33.931-04:002011-04-22T18:30:33.931-04:00Hi Lady Hawthorne! I've heard about that, and...Hi Lady Hawthorne! I've heard about that, and I'd love to visit it. :> It's on my "list of things to see" Grins.Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-82735818081758928742011-04-22T15:29:21.018-04:002011-04-22T15:29:21.018-04:00If you are ever in Houston, TX we actually have a ...If you are ever in Houston, TX we actually have a funeral museum and it is quite fascinating.Recycled Cottage & Gardenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13209720538924091082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-37794550409772540372011-04-21T14:01:05.991-04:002011-04-21T14:01:05.991-04:00Laurie, on books, there aren't a lot still in ...Laurie, on books, there aren't a lot still in print on historical funeral customs. There are some wonderful OOP ones, but I've only found them at my antique book dealer. <br /><br />Modern sources are everywhere, of course. There's an interesting one I'm reading right now called "STIFF, The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers" by Mary Roach. It's a fascinating look at what happens to research cadavers and how they've been used to advance science, etc. Really coolJeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-63441086974367599302011-04-21T13:57:42.729-04:002011-04-21T13:57:42.729-04:00Hi Kate! Thanks for stopping in! I'm really ...Hi Kate! Thanks for stopping in! I'm really looking forward to the next Brooklyn Wainwright! May 2, right? If ya'll have not read Kate's NYT mysteries, you're missing out. Grins. Just a little plug there, Kate.<br /><br />You DO have to put in some funerals. They're so fun in terms of tangling everyone up over things. :><br /><br />And thank you for your kind words about the class.<br /><br />Oh! And isn't this just a lucious blog? A veritable FONT of info! Thanks from me too, Eliza!Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-47431521882632871412011-04-21T13:55:19.632-04:002011-04-21T13:55:19.632-04:00Oops, didn't answer your other question! Ther...Oops, didn't answer your other question! There are a number of search terms you can use, chiefly "Funeral customs" and "Funerary rites" but if you want historical references, be sure to add either the exact time period, i.e. "Victorian Funeral Customs" or "Norse Funeral Customs" or the more general "historical funeral customs"<br /><br />You'll get a lot of junk, but that can give you a start. OR, you can just email me, and I'll be glad to help. Grins.Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-77618185363846956542011-04-21T13:53:16.369-04:002011-04-21T13:53:16.369-04:00Laurie, I pulled out my "book of the dead&quo...Laurie, I pulled out my "book of the dead" - which is my massive research binder on all this. The covering of the mirrors is from two different traditions. The first is Judaic, and that is what I mentioned - you're supposed to focus on your grief, not on frivolities like how you look, and no one should expect you to, so the mirrors are covered.<br /><br />The second is pagan. It was thought that the spirit of the dead could (or could choose) to become trapped in the mirror glass as the body was carried by it on the way out of the house. Cats were often locked away as well, since it was thought they were more susceptible to being overtaken by a spirit that wanted to linger longer. Often a special candle would be lit before the mirror too, to ward this off. OR, conversely, if you wanted to speak to a dead ancestor who might be trapped in a mirror, you would light a candle and summon them to the mirror. Pretty cool, eh?<br /><br />Both practices persist into modern day, although Christian and other traditions other than Judaism frown on the pagan-ness of the mirror thing.Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-58094631786904973512011-04-21T13:00:28.965-04:002011-04-21T13:00:28.965-04:00Jeanne, what a brilliant post. You are a font of i...Jeanne, what a brilliant post. You are a font of information on the dead and buried! I have lots of dead people in my books but only remember writing one wake and funeral scene. Both scenes centered around the living. Hmm, must remedy that. :-)<br /><br />Thanks for all the great info, both here and in your Drowned Dames workshop!<br /><br />And what a lovely blog, by the way. Thanks, Eliza! I'm adding it to my faves and will be coming back often.Kate Carlislehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16863555050062113192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-15618299623255707192011-04-21T12:00:34.451-04:002011-04-21T12:00:34.451-04:00Jeanne, thank you again for the information! It&#...Jeanne, thank you again for the information! It's a relief to finally know how to depict this in my story. If I wanted to learn more, what search terms or books do you find the most helpful?<br /><br />Lauriemystwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05808545727954809208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-69856899494784979612011-04-21T11:41:17.093-04:002011-04-21T11:41:17.093-04:00Hello again, Mystwood! As to the pregnant woman, ...Hello again, Mystwood! As to the pregnant woman, this did happen a lot, alas. It frequently depended on the family, and how far along the woman was. I've seen some markers with "Here lies T.S. Bingham, wife of LR Bingham and unborn child" Then I've seen markers that say "Here lies T.S. Bingham, wife of LR Bingham and Charles Lee Bingham, unborn" (how they would know it was a boy, I don't know)<br /><br />You're right about Fried Green Tomatoes too! I'd forgotten that scene. The clocks stopped is an old tradition too - indicating that the hand of time has stopped for that loved one. The clocks would often be reset to the time of death too, which is kinda creepy. The mirrors were covered to remind people that we shake off "this mortal coil" of a body and the spirit is what's most important. There was something else, pagan in nature about the mirrors too, but I'm going to have to go look that one up.Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-52031280113552341942011-04-21T08:53:36.520-04:002011-04-21T08:53:36.520-04:00Thanks, Jeanne! Either of those options would wor...Thanks, Jeanne! Either of those options would work with my story. I was wondering too - if a woman was pregnant when she died, is there any mention of the unborn babe on the marker?<br /><br />I'm trying to remember books with funerals or deaths. Fried Green Tomatoes pops into my head, although I'm not sure I'm remembering correctly. I'm thinking of a scene where someone dies at home and all the mirrors are covered and clocks stopped.mystwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05808545727954809208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-51357626320898818232011-04-21T00:26:23.233-04:002011-04-21T00:26:23.233-04:00Hey Trish! I'm of two minds about the hair-ar...Hey Trish! I'm of two minds about the hair-art/memento mori. On one hand, I'm fascinated by the intricacy, and delicacy of the work. On the other hand, I'm a bit squicked out by the thought of it all. :> <br /><br />BTW, SOME of the hair art were remembrance gifts made by living people TO living people, and not for the dead. Not many, but some. :>Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-63740462642161754612011-04-21T00:09:40.510-04:002011-04-21T00:09:40.510-04:00I went to the chapel at Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur...I went to the chapel at Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur, and now I can't remember which one has crypts you can go into, and which ones you can't. All those pictures are photos rather than digitized. (*note to self, go through those pics because there were some GOOD ones!*) And Napoleon's made me laugh. There was that small man, big tomb compensation factor thing going on. Snork! How AWESOME about the bodies exhibit. Definately going. And making a note about Tacos and Te-kill-ya as well. Nothing like a fabulous margarita on a warm Vegas day! :>Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-5008425493115600682011-04-20T23:13:15.681-04:002011-04-20T23:13:15.681-04:00What a fascinating post, Jeanne. Though I have to ...What a fascinating post, Jeanne. Though I have to say I'm creeped out by the uses for a dead person's hair. Shudder.Trish Milburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812010789617982102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-86858031254583033352011-04-20T22:24:20.359-04:002011-04-20T22:24:20.359-04:00Which ones in France? Did you see Napolean's?...Which ones in France? Did you see Napolean's? Isn't it HUGE?? The Walter Reed exhibits were pretty freaking cool.<br /><br />Okay, so the Bodies Exhibit is at the Luxor. I checked on line and it looks like it will still be there. Here's a link: http://www.bodiestheexhibition.com/lasvegas/ <br /><br />If you go, please tell me what you think of it! I found it to be extremely fascinating!!! Also there is a place right next to it called Tacos and Tequila--awesome margaritas!!!Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-79951604705055862942011-04-20T21:51:21.085-04:002011-04-20T21:51:21.085-04:00Oh, Eliza, I'm jealous that you've seen th...Oh, Eliza, I'm jealous that you've seen the royal crypts and Irish family crypts in person! I've not seen any in the UK. Only in France. :>Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-68571849803562675632011-04-20T21:50:18.327-04:002011-04-20T21:50:18.327-04:00Hello Eliza/Michelle! Hahah! The Walter Reed exh...Hello Eliza/Michelle! Hahah! The Walter Reed exhibits are fascinating, aren't they? You'll have to send me some info on the Bodies Exhibit in Vegas. I'm going out there in Sept, and if it's still "showing" I'll be sure to go!Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-16934452633478037372011-04-20T21:48:53.444-04:002011-04-20T21:48:53.444-04:00Hi Beth! Wow, that does sound haunting, Beth. I&...Hi Beth! Wow, that does sound haunting, Beth. I've not read that one. I should get it and read it. Thanks! Of course thinking that line makes me think of Monty Python, so I confess that I'm snickering. <br />Cart pusher: "Bring out your dead!" <br />Man: "Here's one!" <br />Cart pusher: "He don't LOOK Dead."<br />"Dead guy": "That's 'cause I'm not DEAD yet!"<br />Man: "But he will be, soon. So I'm giving him to you now..."Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-61728941105712884512011-04-20T20:58:57.527-04:002011-04-20T20:58:57.527-04:00Okay, I am too happy to hit enter today... Yes, th...Okay, I am too happy to hit enter today... Yes, the royal crypts are awesome! Even old family crypts! I went to Ireland several years ago, and we visited the old cemetary where many of our ancestrers are buried. There was an underground crypt that was sealed off, but there was a hole in the ground. My dad stuck in his camer and took a pic--bones! It was awesome! Yes the royal crypts are cool and I like the effigies too :) Thanks!Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-72603088592832200412011-04-20T20:55:29.745-04:002011-04-20T20:55:29.745-04:00Jeanne! You hit it! It was probably at NIH that I ...Jeanne! You hit it! It was probably at NIH that I saw it the post-mortem pics! My dad used to take me there when I was a kid/teen and the medical museum at Walter Reed--and most recently the Bodies Exhibit in Vegas :) He's a doctor and fascinated by these things, must be where I picked it up from. I posted before under my other name, Michelle :-)Eliza Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17209596240914705136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-12575282118432608162011-04-20T20:04:20.790-04:002011-04-20T20:04:20.790-04:00What a fabulous and informative blog, Jeanne! I do...What a fabulous and informative blog, Jeanne! I don't remember any funeral scenes in the books I've read but that doesn't mean they weren't there *g*<br /><br />One of my favorite YA books is Fever 1793. It's about the epidemic of yellow fever in Philadelphia and has some haunting scenes about death, including how gravediggers would push their carts down the streets crying out for people to bring out their dead.<br /><br />Now I want to read it again!Beth Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01204356784898045866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-58379551229352377172011-04-20T18:44:40.405-04:002011-04-20T18:44:40.405-04:00Hi Andrea! Oh, I'll bet your grandad DID have...Hi Andrea! Oh, I'll bet your grandad DID have some stories to tell. That would have been interesting. :> And yes, it's the tradition in the South, where I'm from, to bring the body home for visitations. In a lot of other parts of the country, the visitation at the home is AFTER the funeral, so it's not a big deal, or before the funeral, but at the funeral home or chapel. This "taking Mama home" tradition can be quite difficult for the funeral home in modern times, if families want to do this, because many modern houses aren't made to put a casket through the door. :><br /><br />As I mentioned, though, the wreath tradition and armbands and mourning colors could still be really helpful. Sigh. :>Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-23033080058256650842011-04-20T18:39:50.130-04:002011-04-20T18:39:50.130-04:00Hi Mystwood! Wow, 1450. That would be an interes...Hi Mystwood! Wow, 1450. That would be an interesting study. She might have had her name engraved on the family tombstone - some times there would be one large monument and everyone's name is inscribed. Or if the castle had a chapel, she might have been interred in the family crypt and her name inscribed there, or a statue erected. Certainly HE would know her last resting place. You could have him be quite dismayed to see the chapel or family graveyard's state of disrepair. There were many in the 1800s who believed you should let them fall into disrepair and be forgotten, lest you be focusing on your losses and not on God. :> Weird, I know. Best bet is to have her interred either in the family chapel or in the castle chapel. Will that work within the bounds of your story?Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-21600407010707424182011-04-20T17:48:31.817-04:002011-04-20T17:48:31.817-04:00Wow! I'm speechless! What a fabulous post!
I...Wow! I'm speechless! What a fabulous post! <br /><br />I can't say that I actually remember reading a book that had a complete funeral, other than just a few words from a priest or whatever, or maybe a scene where the women of the clan/family cleansed and covered the body with a shroud, that type of thing.<br /><br />I can only imagine how many different TRADITIONS have been associated with death and dying. <br /><br />My grandfather was an undertaker in England- unfortunately I never really got to hear stories about it, well other than a few I heard from my mom, becuase I lived in the States and didn't see him very often. I bet he had allot of interesting tales to tell!<br /><br />I've always loved the song by George Jones, "He stopped lovin her today." I never knew that in the South when someone died they laid the body out in the home, and then placed a wreath on the door so everyone knew there had been a death in the family!<br /><br />Anyway, thanks so much for sharing! Sure gets the old brain moving!!!<br /><br />AndreaChicks of Characterizationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12507046887458343222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-66380663979872128342011-04-20T17:41:25.504-04:002011-04-20T17:41:25.504-04:00I'm writing a time travel set initially in 145...I'm writing a time travel set initially in 1450 England. The earl's wife dies, and he travels forward in time to 1802. He wants to visit his wife's grave. Would she have been buried in a cemetery on the family estate? How would her grave be marked?<br /><br />Thanks for the fascinating blog post! It reminds me of that movie with Nicole Kidman, The Others. They had death portraits in it, which was the first time I'd ever heard of that tradition.<br /><br />Thank you,<br />Lauriemystwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05808545727954809208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6861175623849452396.post-75830084941210264642011-04-20T16:25:00.980-04:002011-04-20T16:25:00.980-04:00The post-mortem picture concept gained the status ...The post-mortem picture concept gained the status of "art" in the late 19th and early 20th century. Many people continued the tradition well into the present day, although they don't display the photos like many did in the late 19th century. There's a heartbreaking one at the Museum of Medicine at NIH, with a set of parents propping up their young (early 20's) daughter, all of them dressed elegantly, and the daughter is quite dead. It really just gets to me even to think about that one.Jeanne (AKA The Duchesse)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03492480881584553111noreply@blogger.com